Janet Phillips Forbes

Transcription:

JB: This recording with Janet Phillips Forbes is being made on August 8, 1995 as part of the Oral History Project at University of Rochester. Janet was the Class of 1940. She was a student at the University; she was an alumni leader; she was an employee of the University for some ten years; and she has been a Trustee. She is the mother of a graduate and I heard her say that you were a significant influence in your husband’s[1] willing participation in the life of the University too.  My name is John Braund. Janet, how did it all begin?

JF: Well, it probably goes back to my brother’s undergraduate days. My brother Jim Phillips[2] was a member of the Class of ’37 and you won’t know, John, you’re too young, but that was during the Depression. I remember at one period when my parents[3] said to me they weren’t certain whether I’d be able to go to college, whether we could really afford it or not. My brother had a New York State scholarship, I think. And he was a Phi Beta Kappa.- 

JB: Big shoes to follow.

JF: Big shoes to follow; I didn’t try to. I had my heart set on Mount Holyoke because one of my best friends went there but it simply was out of the question. And I happily was admitted to the Class of ’40. I was a music major; I’d always loved music.  And I took a Bachelor of Arts with a major in music and then did a lot of psychology on campus. My last two years they let me take six courses instead of the usual five, and I took three down at Eastman School and three at the campus.

JB: What was your instrument, of music?

JF: Theory.

JB: Theory?! Oh.

JF: I was a major in theory and composition. Actually, truthfully, I majored in Kaleidoscope[4]. That was my life’s ambition. All through college my life’s ambition was to end up being the female Cole Porter. And my junior and senior year, I was director of music for Kaleidoscope and I wrote the score, and my senior year towards the end was the year of the World’s Fair in New York, and my parents rented an apartment down there for a week. And while they and my brother were going to the World’s Fair, I trotted up and down Tin Pan Alley with my little scores – oh! I have I have scores still in the Library of Congress; of course, now they’re public domain. But Jimmy and I went in one time to look them up. How about that? And I decided that Tin Pan Alley was not the life for me. So I went back to the real world and that’s when I applied for a job at the University.

And actually, those eleven years that I worked for the University were among the happiest years of my life. I learned more from my association with the wonderful people on campus than during my entire four years of textbooks and lectures. My first job was as Manager of the Concert Bureau at the Eastman School of Music. And that meant that I was arranging performances and engagements for students and groups to give them experience and to help them earn some badly-needed cash.

JB: That’s scheduling Kilbourn Hall recitals and all that.

JF: Right, yes. I’ll always remember the evening twenty men in Freddy Fennell’s Little Symphony[5] and I started out in a chartered bus for a concert at Hobart College. The bus broke down as we reached Canandaigua. We’d planned an early arrival to allow time for a run-through and try-out of the acoustics of the hall. Instead, twenty men and a girl trudged back into Canandaigua, in tuxes and a long dress, and we had supper at a small café. The cashier was completely surprised when the one girl paid the check for the twenty men. A replacement bus had been sent down from Rochester and we arrived at Hobart on time and the concert was a great success.

One Saturday morning, Dr. Hanson[6] had an urgent call from Colgate University. The soloist for their Sunday evening Gladys Swarthout Series had been canceled. Could we send a replacement? I scurried around and got Bill Warfield[7], then unknown. And his student accompanist, Bob Baustian[8]. We stayed all day long arranging the program, booking transportation, tying down the little details that needed to be worked out. Well, Monday morning when I arrived at my office, that wonderful fishbowl – the glass former ticket office –

JB: Oh, yes.

JF: – in Kilbourn Hall, there was a huge bouquet of red roses on my desk, from Bill and Bob. And I almost cried. And Dr. Hanson had a call from the President of Colgate University saying it had been a memorable performance. And that was Bill Warfield’s first professional performance!

JB: Oh, how interesting!

JF: It was very thrilling.

JB: Because we have Bill Warfield on tape also.

JF: Oh good! Good! During the war years, I wrote a weekly newsletter to Eastman School men in service, trying to help keep them posted about events back at the school. And we had a special bulletin board out in the center of Kilbourn, and I posted notes from them on the board from all, all over the world, which was great fun. After about three years at Eastman School I was interviewed for the post of Alumnae Secretary.

JB: Alumnae: A-E.

JF: A-E. And yes, alumnae; we always . . .The marvelous committee took me to lunch. It was Ruth Tuthill Hoffmeister[9], Norma Storey Spinning[10] – she’d been my English teacher at West High School, and I always dearly loved her – and Ottilie Graeper Rupert[11].  At the end –

JB: What now – what was that last name?

JF: Ottilie Graeper Rupert.

JB: How do you spell it?

JF: R- O-T-T-I-L-I-E. Graeper: G-R-A-E-P-E-R. Rupert: R-U-P-E-R-T. Oh, she was a lovely person. Lived out on Sutherland Street in Pittsford. Long since gone. Well anyway, at the end of the meeting Ruth Hoffmeister admonished me: “Now remember: a good alumnae secretary will always lead her board. But never so they know it.” [laughs] That was wonderful advice.

JB: That was good advice.

JF: In addition to my duties as to the Alumnae Association, I was a field representative for admissions and then later assistant director of admissions.[12]

JB: This is for the women’s college?

JF: Right. Mm-hmm. Well, I was assistant director for the College of Arts and Science.

JB: College of Arts - okay.

JF: I really was in charge of admissions for the College for Women at the University. 

JB: Yes, okay.

JF: And during the war years I was the only one who was traveling.[13] I’ve always been a people person and this gave me the opportunity to help young people plan and think about their college years. And the frequent travels were fascinating but often challenging during those war years.

JB: Yeah, that that was that was a particularly intense period, everything was moving so rapidly. People were changing goals and endeavors, particularly –

JF: Many times, reservations meant nothing; I have slept in the manager’s office at in a hotel when the train didn’t make it, but . . . it it was challenging but fun. I remember an experience at Dwight Morrow High School, Englewood, New Jersey. That was high on our list and it had been – it had a wonderful reputation. On a visit there I met two very bright, charming young women who were juniors. Their counselor recommended them highly and they needed some scholarship aid. And we knew that Vassar was interested in them. The following year when they were seniors, I invited them to come to talk with me and . . . and see some slides of the campus. My room at the Roosevelt Hotel. In those days, there was a receptionist on every floor. When you’d get off the elevator, she’d hand me my room key and mail was ready for me and I had a comfortable sense of security. But.... I had to make special arrangements with a hotel manager to have these two young ladies come up to my room because they were black.

JB: Oh.

JF: They did come to Rochester[14]. We had told them we would accept both of them so they could be roommates. One was on the May Queen court[15] and one was a Phi Beta Kappa. And they were the first two black women to live on campus[16]. I was very proud.

JB: This was in the late forties.

JF: This was in the late forties, yes, mmhmm. And then, as Alumnae Secretary, I was a member of the American Alumni Council. The organization you know, John!

JB: AAC, right.

JF: Right! Of professionals of alumni relations and development, and I became chairman of District 2 – you were chairman of District 2, weren’t you?[17]

JB: Yes. That’s interesting –

JF: Yes! The Northeast Five states. . .

JB: Yes indeed.

JF: Canada and the District of Columbia. . .

JB: The largest district in the country.

JF: Oh, is it? I didn’t realize – I hadn’t remembered that.

JB: Yeah.

JF: Well, we’d enjoy several wonderful annual conferences at Seaview Country Club, Absecon, New Jersey. Have you ever been there?

JB: No.

JF: A beautiful setting. Picturesque atmosphere, superb service. As the new district chairman, it became my responsibility to arrange the next conference. Everyone wanted to go back to Seaview. And I asked whether Howard University would be welcome. The answer was no. “We just don’t invite them. They’d understand.” Well, I refused to hold a conference at a place that would not accept all of our members. That was in the late forties, before Martin Luther King. I went to Raymond Thompson[18], University Treasurer and acting President while Alan Valentine[19] was on leave in Europe. He said the University would stand behind me. This – there was considerable [Yes.] discussion about this. I searched around and we had our next AAC annual conference at Pocono Manor Inn. And Howard University delegates were delighted to be with us.

JB: That’s great.

JF: The three great ladies of Prince Street were all important mentors in my life. Wonderful friends. And I’ll always be grateful for the . . . the privilege, really, of . . . of working with them. Dean Janet Howell Clark[20] was a remarkable lady. I was beholden to her, admired her. She had a quick and decisive mind, and yet she had a very warm and gracious Southern hospitality. She was really remarkable. She had one daughter, A.J. – J for Janet – who was just about my age. And after Dean Clark died, I had a lovely note from A.J. saying that her mother had sometimes referred to me as, quote “another daughter.”

JB: Oh, isn’t that nice.

JF: Her Rochester daughter. I’ll always treasure that note. And someday I may see that it comes to the University.

JB: So she was a mentor both in your student days and as an employee?

JF: Probably more so – no, she was only my dean junior and senior year.  Bragdon. Dean Bragdon[21] was my dean in the freshman and sophomore years. And then wonderful Ruth Merrill[22]. An amazing lady. Did you know Ruth Merrill?

JB: Oh, very well, yes. Ruth was a good friend.

JF: Very bright, with an uncanny ability to penetrate to the core of any problem. And suggest a solution with such tact, that the other person, be it student or staff, would go away thinking she had solved her own problem and wasn’t she just wonderful.

JB: Ruth was one, as I recall, who was in charge and you didn’t know it.

JF: Absolutely. Absolutely. An amazing person. And this is what I mean when I said I really learned more from just being around these remarkable ladies than I did out of what I consider some dull textbooks.

JB: There was warmth and style.  And--and they had marvelous personal style in the –of course they used the language magnificently also.

JF: My office was in Cutler Union[23], on the second floor where Grant Holcomb’s[24] office is now. And of course, every morning when I’d go in I’d go right by Ruth Merrill’s office; I was often invited in and we had many chances to talk about things and-

JB: Ruth was the director of Cutler Union.

JF: Oh, absolutely. She would’ve been – she had been offered the title of Dean of Women but she didn’t want that title, because she thought it might be a barrier between her and her students. She had enormous compassion and empathy. She really did.  She really was remarkable.  And then Isabel Wallace[25], that wonderful, dynamic, tireless, energetic, eternal optimist.

JB: [laughs] Yes.

JF: She was a . . . And I must mention Kay Koller[26]. Elegant, glamorous lady. Always remember her performance in Lady Windemere’s Fan, the faculty production of Lady Windemere’s Fan. And she, as you know, was the first woman to become chairman of a department.

JB: Yes. Yes. In fact, she was one of the first women to chair a major department in almost any university, as you recall.

JF: And Ruth Merrill was the first woman to be director of a student union.

JB: Hmm!

JF: She was recognized internationally. I have rich memories of those wonderful years on the Alumni Board of Governors[27] Alumni Traditions Committee.[28] That was when we pleaded that the women from Prince Street would be merged and not submerged when we went over to the River Campus. [laughs]

JB: That was post-1955.

JF: Right. Yeah. That was after we merged.[29] And then my stint as president of the combined Alumnae-Alumni Association, the first woman. The Trustees’ Council[30], the Board of Trustees.

I was thinking about the organizational campaign meeting at the President’s house – this was Allen Wallis’s[31] house, the old Babcock House[32], Berkeley Street. Long-range plans for the University were being discussed and when the meeting was open for questions, I dared to ask, “Has the University looked into the possibility of acquiring any of the property in Genesee Valley Park for long-range needs?” “Why did you ask that question?” snapped Joe Wilson[33], who was presiding. I froze. And out of the corner of my eye I saw Allen Wallis look up at me.

After the meeting Joe Wilson came up to me and said he didn’t want any discussion on that topic at that point. Well, I went home and said to Charlie, “Guess what? The University must be exploring acquiring part of Genesee Valley Park.” It just seemed to me it was so logical if you looked at a map. And I hope we won’t regret returning that property to the city.

JB: Yeah, that was a long, arduous process of acquiring, and then releasing...of course, all the politics that, that went along with it – the neighborhood, groups in the city, the county.

JF: And then there were those wonderful experiences of the $200 Million Campaign[34]. A great experience. The first year I traveled coast-to-coast with the marvelous development staff, helping to organize regional groups, especially on the West Coast. The second year I went back for the kick-off banquets with alumni and we did one-night stands in San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle. I also visited a number of cities in the heartland and the Eastern states. How we do need to keep in touch with our alumni, a great resource, and not just a campaign tie.

JB: No, it’s gotta be ongoing.

JF: We’re doing a much better job than we did for a period – but they’re so important.

I’d love to just say a little note about Lucia Norton Valentine[35]. She was to me a lovely, elegant lady of style and refinement. Seemed to me that her shyness was often misunderstood as aloofness. At a campaign organization luncheon for the $39 Million Campaign[36], and this goes back a few years, John, I remember Dr. Albert Kaiser[37] telling about a visit to Mrs. Valentine at George Eastman House[38], when she actually broke down in tears and said she found living there terribly difficult. That it was such a barrier between her family and the community. She had exquisite taste and made changes in the mansion to create a . . . a warmer atmosphere for her young children. To my knowledge, the University had placed no restrictions on her plans to make Eastman House an inviting home for the President and his family. There was no thought then that one day it would become a museum.

JB: No, it was it was left to the University as the President’s home –

JF: That’s right.

JB: – and that’s what it was used for, at that time.

JF: I remember one sunny evening I was privileged to attend a Little Symphony Orchestra in the Marble Room of George Eastman House, from Fennell again.  I sat far back and could see the entire beautiful setting. There were nearly one hundred tallow candles burning in large black wall sconces. I don’t know what’s happened to them; they have not come back. The orchestra was tucked away in in one corner and the performance was excellent. It made me think of what it must have been like in the great houses of Europe, when small orchestras entertained guests.

JB: Very elegant.

JF: Wonderful music of the early Classical period was composed for that very reason. And after the concert, we had bouillon and tiny sandwiches in the dining room.

JB: Oh, that’s nice.

JF: It was a lovely affair.

Well, what a joy it is really to reminisce about the University.  We’ve always been fortunate, seems to me, to have the right leadership at the right time. And never more so than, than our current strong leadership. We...we all recognize that we face enormous challenges in the very core of the mission of higher education. And in the means to make these goals a reality.

JB: You’ve had . . . a personal experience that has spanned not only many years but various eras of the University. You were a student on the women’s campus when – I shouldn’t say the “women’s campus”; you were a student of the Women’s College and you had your own campus. I know at that time there were some people who were very delighted that that was the case that women had their own school, and from my experience, there were some that felt, well, that was nice, but the women always got the hand-me-downs from the men. How would you reflect to that . . . contradictory reflect, observation?

JF: That never was a concern to me. I spent my mornings on Prince Street, my afternoons at Eastman School, and of course, I was a city girl and tooted back and forth.

JB: So you did not live on campus?

JF: I did not live on campus, and actually, I wish I might have had the experience of dormitory life, but it just wasn’t possible then. But I do remember what treasures we had at that University then, not only Alan Valentine but Leonard Carmichael[39]; he was one of my favorite professors. Just marvelous, and I took a number of courses in psychology.

JB: Psychology; who later went on to become President of Tufts.

JF: Yes, and then secretary of the Smithsonian.

JB: Oh, that’s right.

JF: But I can remember when [laughs] when I took Developmental Psych, I can remember him coming in; the Carmichaels had just had a young son. And he’d [chuckles] come into class and he’d tell us about little experiments he tried on the baby in the crib the night before. And we’d go out from class and we’d say, “Oh! I hope that child grows up to be a normal child.” Years later, when I was a delegate to the VCA, on Volunteer Committees of Art Museums[40] –this is when I was president of the council at the art gallery[41] – and we had a beautiful luncheon meeting in Washington. Leonard Carmichael, I think, had died, but I sat next to Mrs. Carmichael[42] at the luncheon and I . . . I chatted about this same experience and we both had a big laugh. Oh, what a lovely lady she was.

JB: Oh, nice. How nice. Are there other faculty that you remember from your undergraduate days –

JF: Well, Carmichael, Lee DuBridge[43], of course, that great Lee DuBridge went on to CalTech. And this was the period when we were producing University presidents, a dime a dozen! Fred Hovde[44] went on to –

JB: Purdue.

JF: – Purdue.

JB: Joel Platt[45] –

JF: Joel Platt, who was in my brother’s class, right?

JB: Harvey Mudd.

JF: And of course, Dexter Perkins[46] and Arthur May[47]. I remember luncheons at the Faculty Club[48], when we’d go in and Arthur May might be at one end of this huge table and Dexter Perkins at the other end and everybody else would sit there and it was like watching a Ping-Pong match. The conversation going from one to the other, to one to the other, and one. . . [laughs] Oh! And one marvelous day when Margaret Withington[49] – dear Margaret Withington, who was director of the library at Prince Street – was sitting at one end of the table. And there was a visitor in town from Boston. And during the conversation they found out that Margaret Withington was from New England. And they said, “Oh, um, do you know the Withingtons in Boston?” Margaret Withington drew herself up to her most elegant height and said, [affected voice] “My dear, we are the Withingtons of Boston.” [laughs] And if you’ve ever if you ever knew Margaret Withington, you could appreciate that. [laughs] She was marvelous.

JB: You participated heavily, of course, in Kaleidoscope. Were there other things that you had a hand in activities on campus that you recall?

JF: Well, I–

JB: You must’ve done something with respect to Cutler Union.

JF: I was a class officer and I was in yes, involved in Cutler.[50] And, actually, I had a fairly heavy schedule because I had to put in the hours pounding the old piano in the practice rooms...

JB: Oh yes.

JF: ...at Eastman, before I’d go home. And in those days, John, and in the days when I worked at Eastman School, very often I’d have to stay late to close Kilbourn Hall down after a concert. And then I’d walk across the street and stand in front of a little shop on the corner of Gibbs and Main, wait for my bus to take me back home to the west side of town, absolutely fearless.

JB: Oh yes. You could do that in those days.

JF: In those days.

JB: Yes.

JF: It was very different.

JB: Who do you remember from Eastman among the faculty there?

JF: Well, Dr. Howard Hanson. He was remarkable. In fact, this morning, John, I was looking through some things on my piano, kind of tidying up. And I . . . I really was a great fan of Howard Hanson, he was a remarkable human being, not just a good composer. And he knew every student in the Eastman School by name, knew if they had any problems and he was there to help.  And I have the program in there, his eightieth birthday program that I was looking at just this morning and he signed, “To Janet, with affection.” And I thought – it made me think about, that trustees’ meeting when we were told that he was not well and in Strong and that he would appreciate visitors and Charlie and I went out to see him; it was the last time I saw him. And I just – I feel so privileged to have known that great man.

JB: Were there other faculty there that you recall that –

JF: Harry Watts[51] was my piano teacher.

JB: Oh yes.

JF: Raymond Wilson[52] was chairman of the piano department. John, I’m not sure this should be on tape but this is another side of Janet Forbes.

JB: Oh, it’s fine.

JF: I always played jazz. I play by ear, John. [Mmhmm.] It was very easy for me. In fact, as an under - a grade school student, I apparently got quite high score in the old Seashore – Sea...

JB: Oh, Seashore Tests.[53]

JF: Seashore Test. And Eastman School wanted to give me a scholarship in flute. And my parents thought, she’ll never be interested in flute. So anyway, they gave me lessons in piano and I went down. And my mother played a little bit and I’d take my lesson home and I’d say, “Oh Mom, play this for me, will you?” And she’d play it through once. And then I’d play it. And I can remember going back down there one time and I was playing me lesson for my teacher and my teacher said, “Where did you see that note?” I had no idea where I saw that note and it wasn’t on the score. [laughs] I was just playing by ear!

JB: You weren’t reading, you were just playing!

JF: I wasn’t reading, I was just playing. So he finally told my parents that they were wasting their money. And I always played by ear. When I took – when I became a music major I had to take a piano exam in front of Raymond Wilson to qualify as a music major.

JB: Oh yes.

JF: Well, I didn’t do very well, John! Because I couldn’t read music! So I went to summer school that summer between my freshman and sophomore year and I practiced five hours every single day, and I passed my piano test! So the first year I was – I had to be a music elective in theory. That was back in the days of McHose[54]. He was great. [Allen] McHose. What a wonderful person.

And then my second year, I took the two subjects of piano and theory. And then my third year they let me take extra and I took – I ended up taking some graduate work in my senior year in pedagogy of theory. I took Orchestration, Counterpoint, Conducting, the whole schmear. Loved it.

JB: That certainly had to build your skills at reading music if you had to write it and arrange it –

JF: Well, I still would rather play by ear, it’s easier! [laughs]

JB: I understand! Oh yeah. [laughs] But those . . . those were rich days, because you were in – ‘course, the original faculty at Eastman were there and there were some –

JF: Well, I mentioned Harry Watts – Harry Watts, Raymond Wilson assigned me to Harry Watts. And he would give me assignments. Gershwin’s concerto in F and of course the Rhapsody in Blue. That was fun for me to play, though.

JB: Oh good.

JF: I wasn’t that good at chironomy. That was for the birds. [laughs]

JB: [laughs] When you were working for the University, or, let’s say – I guess – probably it was after you worked for the University, but when you were in your alumni leadership phase and the dynamics of bringing the two colleges together came about, do you recall any of the . . . the dynamics of that period; I know there were some that were for it and some that were against it. In fact, I guess the chairman of the Board of Trustees eventually resigned because he was against it.[55] But do you recall some of those . . . conflicts–

JF: I it didn’t seem to be a conflict; because I was a music major, I never had a course at the River Campus. A number of my friends would go over for certain courses. And it seemed to work out very well and of course I had a brother who was there and I went to many activities at the River and had a lot of friends at the River. So I never really missed it. It just seemed to be a natural course of evolution, almost.  My brother sometimes used to kid me after the merger occurred, because when I was a traveling saleswoman, I would often get up and I would tell about the U of R, this marvelous coordinate university that had separate education for men and for women and yet many of the activities together, just like Harvard and Radcliffe and Columbia and Barnard and this was one of the great assets of –

JB: Brown and Pembroke.

JF: Right! Yes, and then of course it all . . .

JB: When . . . let me start again. After the colleges came together, as has always been the case, the alumni organizations lag the university structure. What were some of the developments that that brought – or how did the alumni associations eventually get together?

JF: Well, um, maybe it was a defensive move, I don’t know, but I think, as I mentioned sometime back, I happened to be the first president of the combined board. I guess they figured –

JB: That was when?

JF: Oh, John.  To-do-do-do-do –

JB: More in the late fifties?

JF: I think it may have been later than that.[56]

JB: Even the early sixties –

JF: It could’ve...

JB: – when they finally came together.

JF: ...been. I think . . . I was going to say I was on Trustees’ Council, but it wasn’t. Trustees’ Council was started in ’63.[57] So it, it may have been the late fifties, John. It was before I became a member of the – before the Trustees’ Council was founded. It, yeah. Or it may be in sixty – it may have been in ’63 – I’m rambling now. But that could’ve been why I was a member of the first Trustees’ Council. I hadn’t looked these dates up. Yes, and then I was elected to the Trustees’ Council. I may have been there as president of the Alumni Association that first year.[58]

JB: Okay.

JF: Not sure of those dates.

JB: That was in the days when there was a Board of Governors...

JF: Right -

JB: of the...

JF: - right.

JB: ...Alumni Federation.[59]

JF: Yes.

JB: That was called . . . then.

JF: Yes. 

JB: I know you and there were several of your contemporary ladies-alumnae, who were part of a very active group, y’know, maintaining the...

JF: The Alumnae Traditions Committee!

JB: The Alumnae – right. [laughs] The – yeah. The rights and privileges [Mmhmm.] of alumnae–

JF: That wonderful Moni Mason McConville[60] and Peg Doerffel Waasdorp[61]. It was, um, a small but very active group. One thing that we did – and John, you can help update me to see whether our efforts have been followed through –there was a wonderful portrait painted of Janet Howell Clark when she retired, John Menihan[62] did it. There was a marvelous portrait of Dean Bragdon and of our first dean, Annette Gardner Munro[63]. And somehow or other, when the Prince Street Campus was abandoned, those disappeared. And this Alumnae Traditions Committee enlisted Alice Wood Wynd[64], who was a dynamo.

JB: Oh yes.

JF: And . . . Marion Warren Fry[65]. And we made a very concerted effort to find those portraits. They were found down in the basement, I think, of Todd Union.[66] And we decided – Alice went and said she would go over herself and get the ladder and climb up and hang those portraits. They were hung for a while in the Women’s Dining Hall[67]. I think they now are in the library. I’m not sure. But they should be up.

JB: Yes.

JF: Now, those were – those three women – Annette Gardner Munro, Bragdon, and Clark – really had the same responsibility as a president of a small women’s college. They were remarkable women and they were a very, very important part of the growth of that University.

JB: Yeah, they –

JF: And they should be honored.

JB: They were significant participants, certainly in the life of the University. You have known every President since Alan Valentine. How would you reflect upon the Presidents you have known?

JF: I had great respect for Alan Valentine. He really trained me. He was the one who really appointed me to the admissions post. We hadn’t done much recruiting. And before he came to the University, he had been Director of Admissions at Yale. He’d been Dean at Swarthmore and then Director of Admissions at Yale. And he felt that Rochester needed to needed to widen its borders. And we needed to do recruiting. And he really was the one who trained me and told me what the University expected and started the program. And my reports from my field trips, a copy always went to him. And every now and then he would make a comment on it, so he was very, very helpful in that. I had a lot of respect for him. Great respect for him; I think it was very unfortunate his last years at the University.

I never knew de Kiewiet[68]. Because those were the years, right after I was married and I was a young mom, and I spent my time taking care of my young children[69], so I was not involved. And then when Allen Wallis came onboard, I was back. And I have nothing but tremendous respect for Allen Wallis. And for Anne Wallis[70]; I thought she was a lovely, lovely person, very talented. And we were good friends.  And then, of course, Bob Sproull[71]. And Mary[72] and Bob Sproull are still good friends. I have great respect for what he’s still doing, nationally and internationally. And Dennis O’Brien[73] was the right person for the right time and he gave us all a lift, and he, he, he brought a certain . . . asset to the University that that we needed. And I think our team now is – it may be one of the strongest teams we’ve had in a very long time. It seems to me that Chuck Phelps[74] and Tom Jackson[75] work together wonderfully. And their special talents seem to merge--the legal talents of Tom Jackson and the wonderful background in economics, political science, community and preventative medicine of Phelps are so terribly important.

JB: Public policy, also.

JF: Right. Right. Right. And they do work together very well and I think that’s so important. We’re very lucky.

JB: So you’re . . . you’re still keeping in touch.

JF: Oh absolutely! I will as long as I can. I’m not doing much and I’m--but I’m still very, very interested. Always will be.

JB: Part of the mythology of Boards of Trustees of universities are that very often they are, you know, just approval bodies that often – they don’t work all that well. I think from my experience, there have been some people on our boards who have worked very well. What--what would you say about your or how would you reflect on your experience on the board?  Did you find that there were some periods when there was a lot of activity – let’s say, a lot of dynamic activity and who . . . who were some of the key players that you knew?

JF: Well, I always considered it a great privilege to attend those meetings. Naturally, I’ve been attending board meetings for, what, thirty-two years?  First Trustees’ Council and then as a Trustee and as a Senior and now Life Trustee.

I’m going to parenthetically interject something here, John, maybe it’ll get back to the right people. I remember back in the years when I was very active.  We used to have a meeting the morning of the trustees’ meeting for the spouses of trustees. And we would have a presentation in-depth of a department or a division of the University, and it was done to perfection. And I always went and I tried to take Charlie, and I think that was one of the best PR jobs that the University did. We haven’t been able to find time; I guess that’s the reason of the last couple of administrations to do that. And I think maybe that’s been a loss.  Because that helped us to overcome the superficiality that some people perceived of the University concept, so. We can even come back to that?

JB: Looking at board memberships, as you have seen them, are there any particular members that that you can think of that really served in outstanding ways or did outstanding jobs?

JF: Well, I go back to the days when I was just--when Joe Wilson was just such a sparkling chairman of the board.

JB: He was he was sometimes called “too good to be true.”

JF: Oh, well, he was . . . and . . . and he was so down-to-earth and he was so wonderful to everyone on that board. 

JB: But he also inspired a lot of work from people on the board too.

JF: Oh he did! He did. He did. He was a magnificent person.

JB: He was a lot more than just a nice guy.

JF: And I do remember when Peggy Wilson[76] first – I think Peggy Wilson may have become a member of the board the same year I did. I think she did, and Bill Webber[77]. And dear Peggy Wilson a couple of times calling me, asking me about this or that on the board and I was so flattered that she would be willing to call me and ask me some questions. She probably didn’t want to call some of the men because she didn’t want them to know she was asking these questions.

JB: Really.

JF: She was a lovely, lovely lady. Trustee.

JB: Are there any others that you can recall as being leaders or people who really played a role that may be or may not be known?

JF: Well, McQuilkin[78], oh, right down –               

JB: Bill McQuilkin?

JF: Oh, what a marvelous man he was and all the Kodak presidents who’ve made outstanding contributions throughout – I think, the University and the community really have worked together. I think the business leaders of the community have realized the importance of having the strong University. With that you have - well, the University is the community: the great Medical Center, the great music center, the great arts center. And a strong University is so important in this community for bringing top-notch business leaders. It gives the community its . . . its fabric and its style.  Not only in training scientists and leader business leaders for the future, but in providing an atmosphere that will bring the people they would like to have here from out of town.

JB: Are there any particular moments that you would call great moments for the University that you can . . . ?

JF: Well, I suppose great moments when we’ve been successful in our major campaigns. I can remember when the $200 Million Campaign went through its goal and I’m looking forward to next spring when this goes – when this campaign surpasses its goal, terribly important. [Mmhmm.] But when we’ve had breakthroughs in scientific developments, medical developments.

JB: So, I take it from . . . from knowing you these many years and seeing you at close hand, your participation and hearing you today, you’ve been pretty happy to be part of the University of Rochester.

JF: Oh, I’ve been absolutely privileged! Yes, indeed. It’s been a very, very important part of my entire adult life, from 1936 right up to 1995 and will be as long as I can manage.

JB: What do you see as its primary challenges at this point?

JF: Well, a group of us were talking about that the other night at a little dinner meeting. And as you know, people are talking about “mmm, what universities become obsolete?” when we get into Internet and information can be brought into the home or into any office so effortlessly. But it will be very difficult, I think, to convince people that the one-on-one relationship of rubbing brain against brain and the personality – the personal involvement, the personality, can ever be duplicated by this cyber – by cyberspace.

JB: You still have to have person-to-person...

JF: Oh absolutely. Absolutely.

JB: ...connections...

JF: Right.

JB: ...to be effectively influenced.   

JF: Right. And that’s what where dormitory life is so wonderful. It’s the after-hours discussions . . .

JB: But also visits with professors in their office...

JF: Right. Absolutely.  Absolutely. 

JB: ...at their homes, or conversations outside the classroom. Well, Janet, let me both officially and personally offer you thanks for your willingness to participate in this exercise. I think this will become a segment in the archival collection of the University, and somewhere down the line, as someone is writing a history of the University, I suspect that Janet Phillips Forbes is going to be quoted in that.

JF: Awww.

JB: Thank you.

JF: Thank you, John, it’s been a joy.

[Recording ends]